What if the greatest warrior in space wasn’t a soldier, but a mother? In this Dad’s Night Out edition of StoryDads, we take a deep dive into Aliens and why Ellen Ripley stands as one of the most iconic female action heroes in film history. We explore how her blend of courage, leadership, and fierce maternal instinct elevates her beyond the typical action archetype, showing the strength in both toughness and care. Our conversation also highlights the film’s exploration of bravery and sacrifice in the face of overwhelming danger. We discuss H.R. Giger’s unforgettable design of the alien itself, with its biomechanical terror and symbolic overtones of sexual violence and aggression, and how the creature embodies fears of domination, survival, and the boundaries of human vulnerability. At its core, Aliens becomes a story about resilience, maternal conflict, and the primal clash between life and destruction. The discussion centers around a nostalgic appreciation for the film "Aliens" and its significance within the sci-fi genre, particularly in its portrayal of motherhood. The conversation highlights how "Aliens," directed by James Cameron, transitioned from the horror roots of the 1979 film "Alien" into an action-packed sequel that also serves as a commentary on motherhood and corporate greed. The hosts reflect on the character of Ellen Ripley, portrayed by Sigourney Weaver, who stands out as a strong female protagonist defined not only by her bravery but also by her maternal instincts, which drive her actions throughout the film. Key themes explored include the evolution of Ripley's character, who transforms from a reluctant participant to a fierce protector after encountering Newt, a young girl in need of rescue. The discussion emphasizes Ripley’s vulnerability and the emotional depth her character brings to the narrative, distinguishing her from typical action heroes. The film's structure is praised for its slow build-up of tension and character development, allowing audiences to engage with the story's emotional stakes before the action unfolds. This layering of character arcs, coupled with the film’s allegorical references to motherhood, enhances its impact and resonates with viewers on a deeper level. In conclusion, the hosts reflect on the legacy of "Aliens" and its place in cinematic history, particularly as a benchmark for female action heroes. They argue that Ripley’s character embodies the complexities of motherhood, offering a more nuanced portrayal compared to modern representations of female protagonists. The dialogue encourages audiences to appreciate the artistry behind storytelling and character development in film, urging viewers to engage critically with narratives that resonate with their own experiences. This exploration of "Aliens" serves as a reminder of the power of cinema to address profound themes while entertaining its audience.
What's up, Micah?What's up, dude?We don't have to deal with kids stuff today, because it's Dad's Night Out.That's right, Dad's Night Out.We're wearing plaid.We're smoking cigars.We're drinking whiskey.And what are we watching?We're watching grown-up movies today.Well, we're going to continue the theme from the last Dad's Night Out we did of aliens.Of aliens.We're doing 80s sci-fi.We're doing aliens.That's right. So, yeah, we're kind of kicking around different ideas to jump into.I think Aliens, as much as it's an action movie, is a movie about motherhood, so more on that take later.But we're talking about Aliens today.Yeah, yeah, Aliens.So, Alien 1, just known as Alien, that was 1979.And, you know, we don't need to dive too much into trivia because there's other great channels out there, like all the right movies and stuff that- I think the Alien series has its own podcast.I'm sure.Someone said it to me, it was called The Perfect Organism.Nice, yeah.I respect the security.Exactly.If you're a fan of that, go check out that podcast.I'm sure those guys are great.But we'll be talking about it.1986.Yep.1986, the sequel came out.It's like seven years, like that's a long time to wait for a sequel.And part of it is I don't think that there was ever any sequel intended.I think Alien, was completely a standalone film.It was originally like this Roger Corman style, like B-movie sci-fi script.Yeah, it's the B-movie sci-fi script, kind of art house movie, sci-fi horror, like a different genre than what this is.But it's a unique one.In a lot of ways, it's a 101. yeah and it was it was almost like early cinema verite in that like they built for alien one uh by oh why is his name escaping me in this moment ridley yeah ridley scott ridley grahams he they built the ship but they built the interior of the ship the way it would actually be laid out so that they could they had to choose their cinematic coverage to suit the actual location as though it were a real location.I don't even know if they had flywalls or anything, they probably did, but they built the ship.And so in a weird way, it was like a 1979 found footage almost, the cinema verite link.I've heard a lot of that. where it's like it was written as kind of like low-level b-movie but with like big budget like we build all the things and well and they they went and handed it to a bunch of you know first of their generation artists like getting hr geiger and everyone who knows how it's actually pronounced feel free to correct me i won't pay attention to it or care but hr geiger like No one had ever seen creatures like that.90% of the time you see the creature in a movie and you're like, it was better when it was in shadows and I didn't see it.And this one is like, can you please put it back in shadows?It's terrifying.Terrifying. I think there's only like two or three creatures I can think of.It's like, this is a truly terrifying creature design.My first exposure to Alien was rough.Six years old and they're showing the unedited Alien movie on the TV.I don't remember what it was.Walked in, right at the chestburster scene.Most traumatizing experience of my childhood right there.Yeah, yeah.Welcome to adulthood. Welcome to Adulthood.And at that point, it started in session, where I was like, what the hell did I just see?I couldn't stop thinking about it.I was terrified of it, nightmares, all of that.But also, I remember at the time, my parents and my parents' friends were like, what was that movie?And I kept asking questions about it.I think when you're traumatized about something, you want to master it.You want to kind of understand that.I think I was putting the pieces of something like that together. Yeah, I mean, I think that scene is known as like, one of the most terrifying scenes of all time.Yeah.And, you know, like, I couldn't go near this series, I would like be interested, like mentally in it.I couldn't go near the series until like, late high school.I remember like, middle school friends started getting into it.And like, I can't, it's too much.It was too scary.And now it's one of my favorite series ever.Because yeah, it's awesome. yeah yeah i uh i think i was introduced to alien franchise by alien 3 actually okay like my dad had rented it i did the thing you know where you sneak up the stairs and you like peek you know and i think it was alien 3 which we'll talk about at the end but sure but then yeah i went back i was like what is this series like that creature is so scary and like security Weaver is so cool like yeah, what is the story I want to have to know and so I went back and then similarly one of my favorites and. Even the ones that people think are bad ones, I love.So this one, it gets handed to James Cameron.So he puts the whole color palette in blue, because that's his deal.And so the first movie is like a trucker movie.Well, it's a trucker movie, but it's a sci-fi horror kind of art house thing going on.Yeah.And Aliens, they give it to James Cameron, full action movie.Right.It's the same thing you did with Terminator 2 from Terminator.Yeah.Big budget action, Marines, big guns.And I've heard some people allude to this as like some symbolism around the Vietnam War.Sure.Yeah.And I wonder about that.I'm sure there's something to that.And we're so far from it now that.Yeah. we didn't experience that you know the like ongoing cultural trauma of this like meat grinder going on that your friends are disappearing into yeah but also as an aside on that like i just heard a thing about like there's more movies about the Vietnam War than like any other war by far, like they were coming out with like one every year for a while.Like, it wouldn't surprise me if this one kind of had some of that energy to it as they're going for more of like a war combat style with that.Yeah, you know, how much is an allegory to that?Maybe we'll get into some of that. Yeah, yeah.Well, let's dig in.So, you know, one of the things we've talked about before in terms of crafting a movie is like every line of dialogue should be funny, develop character, or further the plot, or a combination, right?And so the very first line of dialogue in this movie is regarding like that They cut open the door, they come in, so like the opening of the movie is almost a reverse of the last shot of Alien 1, seven years prior.They went back in across the same... escape pod and so we're just seeing like where have we been for seven years and we come back and you find Ripley she's in the exact same position with the cat and then you know the machine comes in and the salvagers come in and the first line of the movie is like she's alive yeah well there goes our salvage and so it's a joke And it tells you immediately what this movie is about, which is the commodification of human life, right?Like they come in and like the fact that she's alive is a bummer because you were after cash.And that ultimately winds up being what drives the whole plot of this.You know, we discover halfway through what happens to the colony, but this first line is brilliant. Yeah, so from here you were saying that this movie is about motherhood.Yeah, so and that kind of gets to my one of I think the big takeaways about just Ripley the character is I can't think of a better female protagonist action hero than Ellen Ripley in Aliens. it's it's and to to I would say to a lesser extent but it's still a really good job in Terminator 2 Sarah Connor because they're both distinctly moms Sarah Connor more overtly but Ripley in in early on she uh they ask her where's her daughter well she's been hypersleep 56 years like her daughter's passed away yeah now that is in the director's cut Okay.Is that, is that not on the actual?That's not, that's not in the theatrical cut.And so I actually had a note in there about this because, uh, like, well, for one thing, the weird thing is almost all the time, except for maybe the Lord of the Rings movies, like the director's cut is stuff that needed to be cut.And this is interesting.Cause like on the one hand, like, I wonder if it was too on the nose for her being a bereaved mom going into this. But it was really cool and it was very early in the whole sci-fi journey in terms of playing with what time does.Like way before Interstellar where that was the driving force of the plot.But yeah, she's a mom and so even in the theatrical version, the whole nature of the chestburster Yep is a little bit birth.Oh, it's giving birth.Yeah, it's this hellish birth process.It's like we'll get into it when we talk about the symbolism of the creature and how it's designed and yeah, well, let's get into it.Go ahead.Okay.Yeah, so like that, you know, we're saying the alien is one of the most terrifying designs.I think you said it to me this way once it's a giant penis monster.Um, yeah, that penis drag penetrates his victim.Yeah, it's a penis dragon that penetrates his victims and is violently birthed out of its host, which it's infected through a non-consensual process, like it's rape, it's sexual violence, it's all of that meaning embodied in this one terrifying creature design and you know, you would probably know more on like H.R.Giger and some of his stuff.If you have gotten into any of his art, like it is dark and it's insane.It's like the darkest pornographic.Yeah.Weird stuff.Yeah.But I heard that like he would just draw his nightmares.Right.Of course, he has a horrific story of all the things he'd gone through.But so he would draw his nightmares.And then I don't know if it was really Scott or Hollywood or like they discovered some of this guy's artwork and then they adapted it.And he was an integral part. Many designs around alien and it's a tense man.Yeah, I heard I heard a story where he was actually detained at the airport.I don't know if this is true.He was detained at the airport by law enforcement when they went through his stuff at customs because he was bringing all of his sketches. yeah and they were so otherworldly and like lifelike and so like high resolution precise yeah you know yeah that they were like is this guy like are these real is this like a bioweapon is this like documentation about an actual like what is this and they actually detained him till they could like clear and I don't know if that's true.Yeah, that would be an excellent myth.And yeah, you know, some myths are more true than truth, you know, yeah.So, so let's just say it happened.So, but it's it's birds has nightmares for all of us so that we can then acquire.Yeah. And they're nightmares.I heard an interesting thing about an early production of Aliens.They were going to give it to Spielberg.And Spielberg's idea, which he said now would have been a terrible idea, was to do the misunderstood creature and it's scared and it's out for survival. You hear that and you laugh like you're doing now because with this creature design.Yeah, that does not work.Like, you know, we sympathy for this thing.No, we talked about like evil incarnate like that's something about this creature design.It's like yeah, I don't see any way that which is why like The company, which is trying to bring this thing back for a bioweapon, which is the constant theme throughout the four of them, is like, this is a terrible idea.This never works out well.This thing is untameable, is unmanageable, it will always create chaos, it will always lead to the deaths of everyone around you. if it gets anywhere near anything they're making alien earth on fx coming out soon but it's always like don't don't you idiots don't let this creature anywhere near because of any ripley even at the beginning says like i'll go down on the mission, as long as we're going to kill it, we are going to wipe this out.And like, and in today's movies, where we like to have an understanding for our villains and what's their backstory and understand like, this stands in stark contrast to that, where like, the idea of sympathy towards this thing is like, yeah, no way.Well, I mean, there's even a moment of that.Sorry, go ahead.Finish your thought. The idea of sympathy towards it feels morally wrong.Because, I mean, it is, but all that I think speaks to the creature design in H.R.Giger and how they- what the alien actually does.Yeah, like we admire its purity.Just like, you know, what's-his-name does in the first movie. They even in the 4th alien movie, there's that bit where if you have that Brad Dourif what's his name that the actor that plays worm tongue.He plays a scientist in the 4th one and he's kind of like messing with it.He's like yeah with like yeah, Jen or whatever it's sort of like. Torturing it.Yeah.Yeah, even then you're like and they play him to be like the least like you're so okay with this scientist getting killed, but even then you're like, I'm sorry I'm still on the scientist side.Like totally.Yeah.Yeah, like the only problem I have is he's being dumb by messing with it Well, it's cool like you're it's it's it's the Promethean like you're getting too close to something You can't handle it's gonna torture you for the rest of your day.It's like yeah.Yeah, I problem yeah okay so all of that happens way later right now where we're dealing with we've got ripley she's displaced in space and time yeah it was a trucker movie it was a it was an escape film more than anything yeah so now we're in the 80s we're out of the 70s we're into the 80s and she's you know it's 60 years later for her and this is i think one of the early movies where corporations were the bad guy, which was a very 80s thing.The 80s was the emergence of these international megacorps that defied all reason.It's why American Psycho was put in the 80s, because there was this emergent phenomenon of CEOs being these gods among men and the race for that kind of power.And so RoboCop's one of those movies too.Yeah, we covered that.So this is 86.So it's maybe a Vietnam movie.It's maybe a corporate greed movie from both.Vietnam had corporate greed tied up in there and the M16 and all that. Ripley, here she is, and she's got to decide.She's having these nightmares of giving birth to a monster.Yeah, well, nightmares of giving birth to monsters, and then they approach her and they say, hey, we lost contact with a colony.We want someone around who's had, we think it's these creatures.We want someone who's had contact with these creatures out down there to like, consult with.Yeah.And And they've experienced the conflict where that, you know, when they're debriefing her and they're saying, you know, $42 million vessel stuff.And she says, all this bullshit grabs the papers that you think is important.You can kiss it goodbye.And so we have the edifice of the commoditization of human life and humanity. versus this, you know, not bleeding heart in a, in a, like a, a negative way, but this, she's experienced the human loss and she is the compassionate mother.Well, she, she's the compassionate mother.And I think there's actual like reason in there as well, because who cares about the stupid stuff?These aliens get here.Like you're all dead.Yeah.And you can't imagine how awful it was. Right, right.And the mode of death is just horrendous.It's like the worst way you could go.Yeah.And you notice the thing about the alien is it never gets you when you're not looking.Yeah.It makes you look, you know?Yeah, yeah, that's good.No, that's a good point.It's never like, hey, the guy got grabbed from the back.It's always like you're creeping around, and then you turn, and then the alien's just staring you right in the face as its jaws open up.Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Um, no easy makes you stare at the evil makes you stare it in the face as it gets ready to rip you to shreds.Yeah.So. Sorry, so she is haunted by vision of the monster.So I have, you know, our two theses coming at this.I'm still looking at this again, almost as a fairy tale.And so she's a trucker, you know, for the sake of fairy tale lexicon, she's a woodcutter, she's a milkmaid, she's a- She's a tradesman.Yeah, she's just random medieval trades person, right?So she's the woodcutter and she is being invited To go out.By the knights out to slay the dragon.Yeah, go out with the king's men, with the elite knights.We need you because you've seen the dragon before.Yeah.Come with us out into the wilderness to rescue this village that's been overtaken by these penis dragons.And so that's, and so she goes.And she goes because the the dragon that's inside her psyche won't release her until it's exercised.So in that way, she's a bit like Geiger.She's got these nightmares.She's got to get them out and purged so she can sleep.And therapeutically, we know from exposure therapy, if you are confronted with trauma, you have to face it.She's got the wisdom to know, as long as these creatures are out there, I won't be able to be free of this thought in my head.I won't be able to sleep.I won't.And as reluctant as she is, as much as she doesn't trust the company's motives with this, I can't sit here and just let that go.Especially when the, who's the police, Berk, says to her, yeah, we lost the colony, the families that were down there, that grabs her.Families, the children, just like, gosh, the thought of that, and it that tears her up and and she's like I can't I can't not go yeah yeah so she goes she goes to the king's men we get you know the the kind of character intros that only Cameron can do yeah yeah he's so good at these motley crews and yeah it's dated now you know No, but it's good.It still works.They wake up from hypersleep.Come on, ladies.Let's get going.So there's the sergeant.And then come on, Vasquez.They don't want to ever mistake you for a man.All the banter and dialogue around that.And you get these little glimpses. I don't know anyone who doesn't like that.No, and it's so tight.Again, it's does it develop the character?Does it develop the plot?Is it funny?And usually it's two, if not three, even when it's this throwaway banter, you get a sense of who the lovable main characters are.You get a sense of this unit.Yeah. And then, you know, the pain in the ass, the, you know, LT, this non-com, you know, you get some of these movie, like, war tropes.And then what's cool is, at first, you're like, who are these jerk-offs? And then it's time to get to work and they like bust apps and they get in their elite and it's like, oh, these guys aren't elite.Like they screw around and everything, but then that just lends to how hardcore they are once you see them suiting up and deploying is that attitude, which I imagine is similar to what people experience when they actually hang out with spec ops guys is that they're jokers and they're crazy and they complain and they whine and all that and then it's like go time and you're going oh my goodness these are right these are machines and so so it's cool so but okay so so with that and going back to the theme of like Ripley, the female protagonist, the mother, she stands in stark contrast to these guys because ultimately she's the badass hero of them amongst these like highly trained badass brute marines who are tougher than her, who are stronger than her, who know how to use guns better than her, but what sets her apart from them is her maternal instincts.We'll get more into the story, but when she discovers the little girl, Newt, that's where she finds the heart of what, and when you see all the nuances, and we'll get into it more later, the nuances of what makes her, like, courageous, it's all Mama Bear stuff that starts coming out.Yeah, she kicks into a new mode.She goes, they even call her Snow White. when she emerges, right?So here she is, she's lost and they're, you know, the dwarves that do the work.And then here comes, you know, we're going to tote Snow White along with us.And so she, yeah, she goes from consultant and she kind of shows some, you know, when she does the thing with the suit and like, you know, where do you want it?And the two guys that recognize her potential and her talent.And, you know, so she's super trucker, like she's, Yeah, she's a woodcutter, but she's a really good woodcutter.She's a good worker.She's competent at what she does.Yeah. But, you know, she still is a grunt, but it's also not the Rey in Star Wars where you're better swordsman than everyone else from day one.Right, she's torn from the life of Zeus and she's... Or that Wonder Woman in the new one where, like, you just kick ass better than all the men in the whole process, which is, to me, like, this stands in such stark contrast to those kind of modern versions of the female protagonist, which to me feels more just like you're just doing a male protagonist in a female's body. Whereas like, Ripley is still very much an action hero, but she's Mama Bear.That instinct is what drives the whole character.And I think if you lose that, it doesn't, it's not interesting, it doesn't work.Yeah.And in this instance, and we'll get there as we go, but in this instance, it is Mama Bear versus Mama Bear, which is what winds up being the correct, not to skip ahead, but you know, so okay, so they drop down onto the planet, this is the crossing the threshold this is yeah you know 35 minutes in yeah you know we get the first bit of action and so that's the the point of no return is when they actually leave the ship and so i'll say just a note on that another thing about these movies the slow pacing you're 35 minutes in before there's any action you don't see the creatures until much later it's the same in alien it works yeah so well in these movies, especially with how terrifying these creatures actually are, but the way they just ratchet up the tension slightly as it goes on.Yeah, it's great.Yeah.And it's this brilliant horror structure.I think recently, Barbarian was a very frightening film.And I think you go 45 minutes, an hour without seeing a creature in that, too. And so the horror visual formula is typically, you don't want to bring the monster in too soon.You really got to wait.Just like what we saw early on was the beginning of the chestburster, but not all of the chestburster.It's just enough to know, oh, there's monsters in this movie.Not enough to let you see them and believe your attention.So 35 minutes in, we still haven't seen it.They drop down to the planet.45 minutes in, you still haven't seen it. That's really the first time they find the hide, the face huggers at 45 minutes in Med Lab. And at 51 minutes, they kind of plant Bishop as being maybe the villain.Because so far up until now, Paul Reiser's a good guy.We like him.He's likable.He's on Ridley's side.He's put this mission together to go take care of the colonists.We're suspicious of the androids because of last time.When Bishop is like, I'm going to study these things, you know, they're like, uh-oh. Oh geez, this thing again.And so we hit the midpoint of the movie at like at 60 minutes.Things don't go wrong.We don't see monsters until an hour.You've been sitting in your butt in the movie theater for an hour.Yeah.And then it suddenly goes from being a rescue mission because the midpoint of your film is always where you change.Yep. strategy or tactic.It's always where the movie sort of inverts and becomes a new plan.It goes from war movie and rescue mission to survival escape. And it's now a horror film.And in that moment, Ripley also goes from Snow White and Woodcutter to taking charge.Yeah, she's along for the ride with that.And then the Marines go down to the hive, they get destroyed by all the aliens and chaos, or by all the aliens, the chaos breaks loose. the one guy who's supposed to be like their command director back in the little tank, he's incompetent, and Ripley says, I'm stepping in, I'm going in, so she takes charge.She grabs the wheel, she drives the car. And she actually goes from consultant to where she's like, no, I'm going to become a soldier.I'm going to do what it takes to become a soldier.We've already discovered Newt, right?So she's got Newt along for the ride.And then, then everyone's true colors start coming out.So it's at that midpoint where it turns and we see, you know, Bill Paxton's just unbelievably brilliant performance.Where he like, he turns into a, he loses it.He turns into a baby. it's a like he's he fell asleep man yeah like right he's he's just a professional soldier and then he has this thrust this this greatness thrust upon him yeah so he shows his true colors he goes okay you copy yeah leading the group dust off yeah and then let's see and so then we also develop this like this proto mom as she starts more and more to take on a motherhood role yeah newt he has these glimpses of being proto dad where he, they're looking at the map and he like picks her up and puts it on there, gives her his helmet.Yeah.You know, teaches her affirmative.Oh, that's good.Yeah.Right.So he starts showing these signs that like, and you start getting the romantic tension between Ripley and Hicks where, and this is the way it works in real life too, is for, you know, for, for a woman, they want to like, see, are there glimpses in this, like, yes, you want a man that's like, capable and strong and he's a badass and all that like Hicks is super soldier guy like yeah but he's also listens to Ripley yeah listens to her takes her seriously considers her viewpoint is compassionate towards the child shows uh glimmers of fatherhood being capable father so he like sort of does all these things really oh okay we've got this little proto family that's emerged where he's got like you know Yeah.And then he gives her a sword.Yeah.Yeah.So shows him the gun and yeah.Shows her how to use it, which is in the hero's journey until the hero receives the sword.So you've got the soldier teaching the woodcutter like, okay, here's the plasma rifle.Like we're, we're going to show you how to do this thing.Yeah. Yeah, um, and I think the, well, okay, so the story progresses, I think you see more of that maternal side comes out as Burke, as slimy as he is, Paul Reiser's character, locks them in the room with the face huggers while she's trying to put Newt down to sleep, because girls have slept in like weeks, and she's being there as a mother, she's trying to comfort her, right?And then that Is that the first scene where she goes in like full protector mode?They're battling the little facehuggers that are in there.She figures out a way to signal everyone after Berger's trying to shield them from it.And then they come in, they rescue her.So then you're starting to see, I know I keep coming back to this mama bear theme with Ripley, but it's all of the heroic action steps she makes comes from that place. And then you fast forward later as we progress in the story, when Newt gets taken, they're running from the creatures, they're running from the aliens, and she falls down into the water.And then one of the coolest scenes where you see the alien emerge up out of the water to rescue Newt.And Ripley's thing is like, no, she's seen them cocoon people, like there's still time to save my child, right?And everyone else is like, no, let's leave, right?But she's like, no, I have to save my baby.So that is screaming out of her at that point. Yeah, and so in the facehugger scene, one of the brilliant things about it from a film perspective is, like, we've seen these guys mow down aliens with machine guns.Like, we've seen these guys be cool and tough.And so you're going like, oh, you know, they might have a chance.But then this is like a reminder that two baby aliens takes the whole group to take them out.And so it's this great moment of going like, oh yeah, no, these things are still like way meaner than you.And it's just a reminder of what's at stake, because it's been a long time.Like at this point, I'm getting to, I think, like, with my notes, it's like 90 minutes, right?So it's been 30 minutes since the last time we saw an alien. yeah and yeah and they've been prepping and you're like oh you're feeling good about their prep oh they've got a good chance because they barricaded bishops on his way to do the thing and then we see like oh no two baby aliens eats up a bunch of their ammo like all that takes all of them to kill these things And at that point, yeah, Paul Reiser, Burke has revealed his true colors, his plot comes out, and we see that the real monsters, you know, we've got monsters within and without.And so, yeah, at that point, all the lights turn red and we go into the innermost cave.Like, this is that part of the Hero's Journey structure where, like, the things are gonna get as bad as they can get where there's no way out.That's where you escape, like you said, and then, All of these little characters get their arc. Yeah.Like Vasquez and Gorman have like she wants to kill him and they have that moment together where they come together over the grenade.Right.They both act like, you know, Vasquez's idea of like a proper soldier.Exactly.They say, I think the timing is about the timing of the movie.Like we got 20 minutes till this place explodes.Yeah.So, OK, there's not much time.There's about 20 minutes left in the movie.So that lines up.Yeah.But then they have to go back to the hive where they originally got all messed up and they kind of the only hint of an alien queen is early in the movie.They're like, yeah, they're, they're all categories.They're all, um, uh, congressing there.All the aliens are, are in that place.There must be something there we haven't seen.They dropped that line.We haven't seen.Yeah.And then so, so she's following the tracker that was put on nude. And Ripley going to find her kid, it's not her kid, but for purposes of the movie, like that's her baby.She goes to find her and she rescues her.She takes a torch and a sword, right?And goes into the cave of the dragon, of the penis dragon.And in this case, it's not only a dragon, it's also an evil queen.And so it's brilliant.It's like the evil queen and the dragon and, you know, like, Yeah.Penetration all wrapped up in this one creature.And it's the benevolent mother versus the evil mother that is just giving birth to death.Yeah.And the, you know, the one thing that keeps her from getting attacked or ripped to shreds is she's like, I'll blast all these eggs.Yeah.And isn't that great filmmaking where like, there's no dialogue.It's this inhuman, it's a giant puppet and Ripley.Also no music during that scene.Yeah.They do such a good job of just like, the breath of the voice trying to be like, don't draw any attention.But it's like, yes, but you're great.Totally understand their whole communication.Yeah, because here we get like mom to mom.Yep.And so, you know, I think these, this is accurate, like women in professional environments that are run by women advance slower than women in professional environments that are run by men. So there's this Queen Bee phenomenon that happened, where women in authority tend to be threatened by other women seeking authority.And I believe this is accurate.I should probably check it before we go putting it out there into the universe.But But regardless, and even experientially, every woman I know who has been in some kind of professional environment, and even in social environments, their greatest enemies tend to be other women.And they're rivals either for advancement or for social position.And so here we have the ultimate showdown is The moms come at each other and they're both fighting for their progeny.Well, they're fine for the children.I think that do not mess with my kid.Yes.Yeah, that's that's the thing.And the way that, uh. The way that women fight is like, I'm not just going to beat you.I'm going to utterly destroy you.Totally.So Ripley on her way out of the hive is like, you know what?You know, screw it.Yeah.Boom, boom, boom.And she just, cause she could have just backed out of there and tried to get away.Who knows?Maybe there'd be a truce, you know?But instead she was like, like, yeah, you're going down.Yeah.And then, but even, so like, again, The way Secondary Weaver nailed this role, she gets like the badass, I'm intimidated by this person energy out, but she's also like, she doesn't look the most competent with a gun.The way she carries it, the way it's like, you can tell she's a novice with it. But she's gonna get the job done.She looks like a novice with it, but she's so determined at the same time.And I think that's like the mom that's never lifted big weights, but I gotta pull the car off my kid, like the superhuman strength that comes out.Yeah, if I got it, I'm gonna do it. And it lends, like you were saying earlier, it lends so much more credibility, so much more interest, and so much more passion to that protagonist versus, I'm just effortlessly good at everything.Like, oh, it's just black girl magic.Like, I just... You know, I just do it.I'm just amazing at it.To have like, no, she's not a soldier.She's barely learned to use this thing.She's terrified.It's put together with duct tape.And the courage, because it's in spite of the terror, she still continues on because I'm protecting my kid.So she escapes.She's trying to get away from this thing.And it does a good job of like, the countdown has started, the place is about to explode. The dragon mother queen is starting to come after her.You can feel it.She's waiting for the elevator.You can feel the urgency.All the while she's like hugging tight to her baby.So she gets up to the top.Bishop's taken off.And the aliens and the alien queen is about to come.And then she accepts her fate.They're about to get ripped to shreds. And her last maternal instinct, she grabs these, close your eyes, baby, it'll be over soon.And even then, it's this maternal side is coming out and Bishop shows up and they're rescued.Yeah.It's almost like the, you know, we're going to face the end.We're at least going to be together.I'm going to be a mom.You're going to be a daughter in this moment.And so yeah, the evil alien queen also essentially goes, well, you, you killed my babies.So now it's on, like, I'm going to abandon my, uterus you know she like separates from her egg-laying apparatus or like you know whatever her thorax and is like i'm gonna abandon the planet i'm gonna abandon my babies i'm gonna abandon this whole thing just to get you because you crossed the line bitch yeah and so you feel that like like You could piss the other aliens off, that'd be one thing.But you pissed the mom alien off.This is something else.And she's not just going to kill you.And so when we get up to the ship, the alien doesn't even go after her.The alien goes after Newt.And you buy it, you believe it.You're like, yeah, obviously she's going after the baby because that's going to hurt Sigourney Weaver way more than just killing Ripley.I'm going to kill Newt in front of you and then kill you. So Sigourney Weaver's great line, she comes out in the power loader, get away from her, you bitch.That's how moms fight.That's exactly how it sounds when, like, get away from my kid.And what's cool is the woodcutter goes back to her essentially enchanted axe, right?Like this enchanted thing from her trucker past is now like the weapon. that's going to empower her, right?So she returns and that's the hero's journey where you come back with the antidote.So she comes back to where she started, but with a new sense where like, this isn't a power loader.This is a suit of armor.Like this is a weapon.And, and so they do that battle.And so, you know, there's like almost no denouement in this movie.Yeah.Knocks her out the airlock.She has completes the plot arc with Bishop where she reconciles with androids.Yep. And then it ends with they finally get to go to sleep.Yeah.Which was the whole thing.Like this whole, the whole mission was like, can I, can I sleep at night?And so she comes back with a little mini Ripley who also becomes a soldier.So like her last line as they lay down for to bed is affirmative.And so she is been, you know, parented by X and Ripley to be their little progeny.But yeah, the upshot. like that I wanted to mention before we were done is yeah like the the fairy tale nature of it is going to fight dragons yeah but but the mom nature of it and and and the comparison to what you know the trope of like the strong female protagonist is one of the things that you you almost never see is these badass moms anymore yeah yeah there's this idea that motherhood is somehow infantilizing, or it's somehow relinquishing adventure.And it's like, dude, motherhood is the craziest adventure you can go on.It's the scariest, most terrifying, that will take more from you than any other adventure. imaginable as being a mom.And for modernity to throw that under the narrative bus is such a disservice.It misses all the best parts.I mean, as we break down these films and these messages, it's like, you don't know what you're throwing out, man.All the new alien movies that they keep coming out with once Ripley's gone after, after resurrection, the character kind of gets twisted and you know, the studios had all their issues and like the sequels that came directly after this, but in Prometheus with Numi Rapp is this character, Elizabeth Shaw.And then the, I don't even remember the other one in Alien Covenant and. even in the new one Alien Romulus is a great film like one of the best of the series like since all that but they keep trying to bring the badass female antagonist and it never sticks and part of it is Sigourney Weaver is brilliant right but part of it is also like you're missing the mom element like you don't do that like it's it's It's different in that they kind of do it in Prometheus, but she's barren and unable to have a kid.There's a hollowness to it, so Ridley Scott kind of revisited that.But it's what makes, I think, when it comes to female action heroes, Ripley's the peak of the mountain for me.She's definitely up there.Yeah, and the thing that does it isn't that she's badass, it's that she's vulnerable. And it's the vulnerability, it's the adventure in the face of vulnerability that makes it so badass. You know, the idea that motherhood is sort of the negative space left over when you've abandoned adventure is, I think, horribly toxic.I do think Ripley, like female action heroes, I think her and Sarah Connor from Terminator are in that category.Because like the distinctly mom thing, I know I said that earlier, but it's such a, I've not seen it revisited.Also Sarah Connor in Terminator 2, also James Cameron.Yeah, yeah.And Sarah Connor's character is even way more masculine in her manifestation than Ripley is.But her whole thing still is raising up the kids, right?Yeah, it all comes back to that's what it took for me to be the mom I needed to be.The thing that works about her, and when you view this movie as an exploration of motherhood, Get away from her, you bitch line and close your eyes, baby.It'll be over in a second.Like.Yeah, they ring true and they resonate in a way that you just kind of like, you hit those moments in these other stories.Like, like, yeah, I guess we're doing that thing now. right and i also think it comes from again from from writers who are so obsessed with how clever they are in constructing a plot versus allowing the characters to create the plot that um you know only two things happen in aliens like they go to find out what happened to the colonists and then they try to get away that's it yeah there isn't a convoluted plot at all empire strikes back is they escape the empire and then they rescue your friends.That's it.And nowadays there's this emphasis to make the plots so crazy to come up with a cool character and come up with a cool plot and they just happen to coexist.Even in the simple plot you're talking about, that leaves room for all the depth and the nuance and the stuff we've unpacked over the past hour. is you take a plot and you take good rounded characters and you put them in that situation and then you let the characters inform how they're going to get out of it.Well then exactly, at that point the writing, it's not I need to come up with a story, I need to discover the story that unfolds from this place, which is what art is.It's a discovery of something.You find the things that ring true and You put that element in and then what's the thing that happens?And if it's a totally different way of approaching it than if you're like, okay, we have these characters and we're going to use this character who you've known forever to make a statement about feminism or masculinity or whatever.Now, now you're in the realm of propaganda.I don't mean that in terms of governmental, whatever, but it's like, you're trying to push a message.It's the same reason, like you're. your stereotypical Christian movies just are so hollow because like all you're doing you're so preachy and so much is like pushing this like you're not telling a rich story where you're actually discovering elements of who these people actually are.Yeah yeah and letting them get in their own way yeah like we all do and you know Paul Reiser being the biggest monster of the movie And instead, as you're writing something, you go, oh, it seems like the character would do this now, but I can't have them do that because it crosses the social moire of mine.It's like, no, let the character do the thing.Cross your social moire.The character's doing it.You weren't.You know, get out of the way and let them make a story.And so then what's funny about Aliens and the generational jump to the next movie is you have Cameron, this is Boomer, you know like cranking out this like larger than life kick ass we all win in the end you know we get she she gets the boy she rescues the girl they go off in peaceful sleep and then you bring in like gen x fincher who comes in and he's like nothing they'll die never mind yeah they're all dead you earned nothing it means nothing and now like now you're in prison you're in this gray all those favorite characters like they're dead before it even starts yeah And you're on a prison planet with a bunch of the worst scumbags you could think of.So that's Aliens.Yeah.So anyway, yeah, it's been fun doing these Dads I'd Add.I know we hit another 80s side-by-flick, but it's a good one.And I think that as we're doing these, I hope that some of the listeners start taking away just a new way to watch stories in order to engage with some of these throwaway lines and the depth and the meaning. Pay attention to when you watch something that really resonates with you.Like, what is it about that line that just really gets to you?And I think when you start learning to think in some of these ways and pick up on some of these patterns, it opens up a whole new world around these things.So if you've been with us this long, I hope you've enjoyed that journey and continue with us.Yep.And we'll see you on the next one.